第41章 访谈 (1)

第一节 遗产、旅游与联合国教科文组织 (1)

--世界遗产中心主任弗朗西斯科·巴达兰访谈录。

美国育利康基金会弗德瑞克·达瑞根

四川大学李春霞译

时间：2007年6月17日

地点：巴黎联合国教科文组织总部世界遗产中心

采访手记：美国育利康基金会主席弗德瑞克·达瑞根(Frederique Darragon)女士就世界遗产的一些问题采访了世界遗产中心主任弗朗西斯科·巴达兰(Francesco Bandarin)先生。访谈内容包括遗产的类型区分、弗朗西斯科先生对旅游的看法及其对中国学者研究世界遗产的相关建议等。

弗朗西斯科先生在办公室接受弗德瑞克女士的采访

FD：By the way，in terms of culture，what else is the UNESCO doing？

请问，在文化方面，联合国教科文组织还做了些什么？

FB：The UNESCO does many other things in the field of culture，including managing other Conventions.Per example，there is a new Convention that was just entered into force this year.Its called the"Convention for the Protection and Promotion of the Diversity of Cultural Expressions".Some people call it"Cultural Diversity Convention"，but its not correct.Its the diversity of cultural expressions that is protected.This is coming into force this year，and the first meeting the Intergovernmental Committee of the Convention for the Protection of the Diversity of Cultural Expressions，was held on June 18th.

联合国教科文组织在文化领域做很多其他的事情，包括管理其他的公约。比如，今年刚有一个新的公约生效，名叫《保护和促进文化表现形式多样性公约》。有人称之为《文化多样性公约》。但这种说法是不准确的。受保护的是文化表现形式的多样性。这公约在今年正式生效，6月18号，将会举行保护文化表现形式多样性公约政府间委员会第一次会议。

FD：Could you clarify what is exactly the difference between the diversity of cultural expression and intangible heritage？

您能告诉我，文化表现形式多样性与无形遗产有什么具体的不同之处吗？

FB：Intangible heritage are elements of heritage，namely things from the past.They have already been identified，as per example folklore，dance，traditional things，traditional languages.But Cultural Expressions are modern creations；they include movie，photography，music or any kind of expression or，for that matter，maybe anything that is linked to the diversity of a certain culture.The exact definition is yet to be made more precise，as a way to allow for a better protection of each countrys cultural expression that otherwise could be threaten by globalization.In fact many governments see it as a way to protect their national cultural products，more specifically their music，but also theatre，movies，and all the video products，which are influenced by globalization.Because of these perceived risks，it was adopted.Of course，some countries are totally against this idea.

无形遗产是遗产的元素之一，即来自过去的东西。它们已经得到确认了，比如民俗、舞蹈、传统之物(traditional thing)、传统语言。而文化表现形式还是现代产物，包括了电影、摄影、音乐或者其他任何形式的表达，或者与某种文化的多样性相关的任何东西。确切的定义正在修订中，以期更精准，成为更好地保护每一个国家的文化表达免于全球化威胁的工具。事实上，许多政府把它视为保护他们自己国家文化产品的途径，特别是受全球化冲击的音乐、戏剧、电影和所有的录像产品。因为它们遭受的威胁昭然，这个公约通过了。但是也有一些国家完全反对这个观点。

FD：Please can you describe the relationship between cultural heritage，natural heritage，mixed heritage，cultural landscapes，oral and intangible heritage？

能请您谈谈文化遗产、自然遗产、混合遗产、文化景观、口头和无形遗产之间的关系吗？

FB：First of all each category is defined by a set of criteria that you can find in the Operational Guidelines on our web site and most of the names are selfexplaining，I would say，except for the term"cultural landscapes"......

首先每一个类型都由相关的评选标准定义了，你可以在公约的《操作指南》上找到，指南在我们的网站上有，而且很多类型的名称就能自我说明。但我得说，除了"文化景观"这个词......

FD： I am especially interested in this category.

我对这个类型特别感兴趣。

FB：A cultural landscape is a tangible human heritage so we consider it as a cultural heritage.It is not separate category，but rather a subcategory of cultural heritage.

一处文化景观就是一个有形的人类遗产，所以我们认为它是一种文化遗产。它不是一个单独的类型，而是文化遗产的一个亚类。

FD： But what about mixed heritage？

那么混合遗产呢？

FB：A mixed heritage is a heritage that has characteristics (i.e.criteria) of both cultural heritage and natural heritage.Natural heritage are recognized as such by IUCN and have to satisfy at least one of 4 criteria，cultural heritage are recognize as such by ICOMOS and have to satisfy at least one of 6 criteria.

一个混合遗产是同时拥有文化遗产和自然遗产特点的遗产。自然遗产方面由IUCN(世界自然保护联盟)评估，至少要满足4条评选标准中的1条。文化遗产方面由ICOMOS(国际古迹遗址理事会)评估，至少要满足6条评选标准中的1条。

FD： So what is the difference with a cultural landscape？

那么与文化景观有什么不同？

FB：A cultural landscape is a human heritage，but one where you can see a trace of the relations between man and nature，it is manmade even if it has some characteristics of a natural heritage according to the definition of the natural heritage.Some people consider these sites as the most beautiful ones.

一处文化景观就是一种人类遗产，却是一个你可以看到人类和自然关系踪迹的遗产，它是人造的，虽然根据自然遗产的定义，它具有自然遗产的特点。有些人认为这种遗产地是最美的一种。

第一节 遗产、旅游与联合国教科文组织 (2)